Label Questions » Raising Hell Records legit?
So I just found a label called Raising Hell Records

that just started this year and is doing reissues of Out of Print albums with no website or Facebook.

so far they did
GOTHIC SLAM - Just A Face In The Crowd
Ded Engine - Hold a Grudge (says it is licensed from grudge records which was bought by BMG. So it should say it was licensed from who ever currently owns them. And can't find any info on compass distributing inc regards to music ownership)
Nuclear Assault - Survive (Not posted about on any of the official NA pages)


All limited to 666 copies and only sold through Ebay and a few distro. Which makes me believe they are just another bootleg label doing a cash grab.
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It seems like they are/were distributed through Tribunal/Divebomb Records, so it may be worth asking them for clarification.

http://tribunalrecords.bigcartel.com/

The previously available link for the Ded Engine CD on their site:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&ct=clnk
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It's getting really difficult to tell boots from legitimate releases lately. Unless they are new releases or releases of unreleased demos, it seems that almost all reissues of the old stuff are technically bootlegs. Many times, the original label is getting paid but the band members aren't involved. As long as one person who is contractually obligated to be paid isn't getting his or her due, the release is technically a bootleg. Many people who are out there on blogs making their own judgements as to whether something is or is not a bootleg aren't exactly following sound criteria to make the judgement. Some say something is automatically a boot, if the band members aren't involved. Sometimes, the band members don't own the rights to their own music and therefore don't have to be consulted before a reissue hits the streets. Some people may think this is unfair and it may be true, but it is a reality about the way the business goes. Also, buying an original, used pressing and paying 70 dollars for it neither pads the band members' nor the label's pockets. The only thing that you're doing with the purchase is giving the person who originally bought the copy for 14 dollars a nice profit on their purchase. Even more so, band members/labels aren't seeing any money from those people downloading albums for free off blogs and other sites. I'm not necessarily a fan of bootlegs and I don't condone people making a profit at other people's expense. But I am concerned that in many cases the people/labels who own the rights are sitting on those rights instead of acting responsibly. The music that we love will die, if these people/labels continue to allow many metal classics to lie dormant for the next few decades. If anything, the bootleggers make the labels pay attention to a release that they may have otherwise neglected for quite a long time.

These are just a few thoughts that I've arrived at after seeing postings about which releases are bootlegs and which are not that are scattered all over the net. I'm just not sure any of us have enough information to make such determinations, and even if we did, I'm sure it is our place to make the call. We aren't the bootleg police, after all.

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I know to others it may not matter, but an illegal pressing of a release is a pirated recording,
and live concerts/demo sessions/rehearsals that bands never released officially on CD/vinyl are bootlegs.
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Yeah, but I'm not talking about those recordings. If the bands give permission to a label to release demos, it's an easy thing to determine. Stormspell, for example, releases tons of that kind of stuff. It's all legit. Most of the discussions on blogs are about reissues of band-released stuff that was on legitimate labels back in the day. It then comes down to questions like who owns the rights to the music, have rights been given for a reissue, and have those who are to be paid, been paid. Most of these things are just too hard to determine, especially by people like us who aren't directly involved in any of it.

Let's face it. Some of the postings on this blog are technically pirated recordings. I mean, what do we post? We post "live concerts/demo sessions/rehearsals that bands never released officially on CD/vinyl." Some of the material is band endorsed, but how often do we think about the fact that the music offered for free to members doesn't amount to any cash for labels or band members. Really, how often do blog members consider the idea that a posting that offers something to be downloaded for free may undermine the sales of a legitimate, official CD release that may occur maybe next month or the month after that. Hypothetically, someone who downloads a vinyl rip here for free may pass on paying for the same release when it hits the street on CD a week from now.

I'm not condemning myself or anybody else on this blog for what we do. I don't have any delusions about it. The main purpose is to keep the music that we love alive. I believe in the crusade as much as anyone else. The only thing I don't want to do is get up on my high-horse and point fingers at others calling them bootleggers. I don't want to take the moral high ground. We're all making hard-to-find music available. They are just being paid for it, because they press it in CD format.

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You make some very interesting & valid points VardisRules, and i agree with most of what you say.
I would however make the case that the bands often benefit from the exposure that they gain from postings on forums like this.
I know i've bought tons of stuff after first being exposed to the music here or on other forums or blogs, and i'm sure i'm not alone in that.
As you pointed out though, the reissues i've purchased may not benefit the band members depending on how the reissue was done.
That's why i now try to buy from labels that work ethically with the original bands concerned when i can.
Stormspell, who you mentioned, are a great example of a label who treats it's roster of artists properly and reward the fans with exemplary packaging/artwork/sleevenotes/bonus content etc. It's a model i'd like to see more of so i can buy the music i love safe in the knowledge that any profits (which are likely pretty negligable for the obscure niche groups we're talking about in all honesty), go to the right people, and that their work is presented in the best possible way.
Maybe we should start a list of 'ethical' labels that treat the bands and fans correctly?
Stormspell do a great job and i see them as the perfect example of what we're talking about, and i'd also add ShroomAngel to that list if your tastes run to obscure 70s/80s Heavy Rock or Southern Rock.
I'm sure there must be loads of others, but i'm not as connected to the world of reissues as i once was.
It's an interesting (off) topic, i'll be interested to see what everyone else thinks.
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Well put, man. There were bands posted on here that I never heard before. I then went and bought all their CDs. To me, it's all about the music. I don't want it to disappear.

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everyone here (especially vardis up there) has made compelling points, i'm for one has been buying stuff that has been uploaded to this site now, wich is a good thing and i like to see a thread on ethical labels to see wich labels get that approval, but i'm also concerned is also about good sound quality as well, most of the time these "so-called" legit reissues get poor mastering/remastering jobs that make people want to buy an original pressing (i'm looking at all mainstream labels) but this also comes up in labels that give the bands the right amount of profit (marquee records for the preyer reissue), here, we all talk about how bad bootlegs are, but when a "PURE" legit label comes around and releases a album, they then smack you with a dudd that could have been all around the greatest reissue ever made (i use that loosely though), so like with this unknown label names Raising Hell Records, how is the sound and is it worth the hard earned money?, questions, questions.
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I own the Ded Engine Raising Hell release and the sound and packaging is top notch. All their stuff is very well done. Legitimate or not, it's hard to say, but the product is great. 99 percent of legitimate releases neither sound nor look this good. The quality of the Raising Hell releases is what pushed me to say what I did in previous posts to this blog entry. I don't know who owns or runs the label, but after seeing the quality of its product, I'm glad he or she is doing it. As I said, it's all about the music, and I must say that I'm happy that I have a copy of the Ded Engine.

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oh that is good to hear, i've been thinking about getting a copy myself, maybe later this year since my money is starting get tight now, too many reissues and releases for me to keep up with, lol.
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VardisRules wrote:Well put, man. There were bands posted on here that I never heard before. I then went and bought all their CDs. To me, it's all about the music. I don't want it to disappear.


As long as there are places like this sharing and spreading the word, and a discerning audience looking for quality music i don't think there's any danger of the music disappearing.
I've been pleasantly surprised to discover recently how young many of the members here are, i'd previously assumed most members were old farts like me, reliving the 'glory' days of their youth.
It's to their credit (and good for the future of Metal) that they've refused to accept being fed modern & mainstream music and chose to dig so much deeper than most of their peers to find music with real quality, depth and emotion.
Very heartening for an ole timer like myself to see new generations appreciating the music of my youth here.
Whilst i recall, another 'ethical' label that's well worth supporting is Rockadrome Records, (and it's sub-labels, Forged In Fire & Vintage), they always work with & pay the artists, puting real loving care into their releases, with added value bonus tracks, sleeve notes, enhanced artwork, lyrics etc.
They've done great work in recent years bringing us quality official (re)issues of Ashbury, Iron Claw, Watchtower, Ultra, Winterhawk, Anvil Chorus and the like.
They used to be known as Monster Records until a few years ago, so some of you will likely remember their Manilla Road, Legend, Slauter Xstroyes etc. releases under that name.
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I love Rockadrome. I order from them online all the time. The owner Dennis is extremely helpful. They also carry some really cool stuff. The fact that they are based in San Antonio, Texas has led me to be able to secure some really good copies of old Texas metal from the label. They sell all the Militia stuff. Heck, I even got the classic Mexican band Megaton's self-titled on CD from them. They probably had it, because they are located so close to Mexico.
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VardisRules wrote:I love Rockadrome. I order from them online all the time. The owner Dennis is extremely helpful. They also carry some really cool stuff. The fact that they are based in San Antonio, Texas has led me to be able to secure some really good copies of old Texas metal from the label. They sell all the Militia stuff. Heck, I even got the classic Mexican band Megaton's self-titled on CD from them. They probably had it, because they are located so close to Mexico.


Yeah, (like those other labels i mentioned), i've always found Rockadrome a pleasure to deal with.
Anything i've ever ordered from them was packaged securely, described accurately, and dispatched promptly, and often arrives replete with free stickers etc.
Any questions i've ever had about their products are always answered quickly and accurately, with the type of inside knowledge that only a proper fan would have.
A great service all round.
I only wish all online retailers and labels were as conscientious and dilligent.
After talking about them i now feel the need to go and check their site out again.
No doubt i'll end up spending more money i don't have on something i 'need'.
(yes)
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Rockadrome is a great site. I've ordered CDs and vinyl from them, and have always had positive experiences. Another great label is Divebomb. The product is amazing and the goods are always shipped out within 24 hours. Matt, who owns Divebomb, is a great guy. He's the singer for the Metalcore band KillWhitneyDead, but is as much a classic metal guy as anyone I've ever talked to. I highly recommend Divebomb.

This is what I really love about this site. I love to talk about classic metal, but don't really have too many to talk to about it. This little online community is a great place to discuss the greatest form of musical expression ever created by man.
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2 labels I respected early and then was highly disappointed with was Wild Rags and New Renaissance. Both had some great releases and I had the opportunity to interview Ann Boleyn an no sooner I brought up her label practices, she vented out that she was a lawyer on the side as well. I said maybe she found loopholes she could get away with because of that fact with the contracts and she hung up on me LOL....I smell something raunchy......maybe I was right and so many other people? A shout out to VardisRules as well......you know who I am LOL....INDDDDEEEEDDD!! (knight2)
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Yeah, I remember reading people attacking Sam McCaslin on a blog calling him a bootlegger. He ended up getting in an argument on the same blog with Ann from New Renaissance. Everybody was attacking McCaslin on Ann's behalf. The truth is that there are many worthy records on New Renaissance that haven't been issued on CD in a very long time. There are New Renaissance CDs out there, but everyone claims they are bootleg recordings. I understand the idea of labels owning rights to a recording. The only issue I have is when those same labels sit on a release. The labels often don't show any interest in releasing their own albums, and those same labels won't license the rights out for others to do it. I have friends who refer to these labels as violators of catalogue. There's a certain degree of responsibility that comes with the ownership of recordings. If you don't want to finance the release of a title, then either license out the rights or sell the rights to it. I went into a record store a few weeks ago and saw a 2 disc Hellion compilation that was released by New Renaissance Records. It was an autographed edition signed by Ann Boleyn. I immediately thought about how interesting it was that a Hellion release would be issued, while other great bands on the label are neglected. It's interesting that the label would choose a Hellion release over the other bands on the label roster. Could it have anything to do with the fact that the Hellion singer is also the label owner? I like Hellion's music, and don't have an issue with the label itself. I do, however, have an issue with great metal releases being neglected.
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Again, lots of interesting points well made.
Although i take your points about the new Hellion comp, i think it's release is primarily to promote the band's return as Ann has a new band (including ex-Dio & AC/DC drummer Simon Wright) and so Hellion are gigging and recording again for the first time in ages.
A new album is due soon, so i can see how it makes sense from a financial & promotional point of view to put out a Hellion comp at this point.
Particularly as it's been licensed for worldwide release, so it opens up the potential for live festival dates in Europe etc with the band's name back out there.
That doesn't excuse any alleged 'violations of catlogue' of course, i fail to see why any rights holder would turn down the chance to make a few bucks from a licensed reissue on another label as it takes minimal effort on their part, and benefits the bands & labels alike.
I wonder if the mere knowlege that Boleyn is a lawyer is enough to prevent potential licensees even making an approach to re-release New Rennaisance catalogue items. Small fish do tend to avoid sharks.
As for Hellion, i always loved Anne's voice but felt some of the band's material let them down, particularly later in their career.
Always thought it was a shame she didn't get the call from one of the big league bands, i think she could have done a great job in a situation like that.
I'd have been far more interested in an Ann Boleyn/Sabbath team up than i was when Tony Martin was in the band.
Likewise the vacant posts in Priest or Maiden when Dickinson & Halford were AWOL could have made for potentially great collaborations.
I rate her voice that highly, she has great range teamed with a 'throatiness' you don't always get in female singers.
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Interesting topic. Ann Boleyn is a fraudster and bootlegger. She never said that she released albums of Kublai Khan and Sepultura, and she didn't have the rights for them, so they are bootlegs on New Renaissance. She yells about others, but when she has to reveal her misconducts, she all of sudden is silent. I guess attack is the best defense. And she calls herself a lawyer? How pathetic.
A lot of bands is affected by her misconducts. i remember one time when she asked about Cerebus member and when Cerebus member appeared, she never replied back. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have the rights for New renaissance old recordings and that 2000 reissues are bootlegs all together.

I have read that after 10 years, contracts expire.
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I know someone who has gotten a New Renaissance contract from one of the bands on the roster. He had a lawyer look at it, and the contract didn't have any wiggle room to circumvent the label rights for the sake producing reissues.
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