Recommendations, Records, Collections, etc.
General Metal Discussions » What killed metal?
  • 1
  • I tried finding something relating to this subject on here but I couldn't. What do you think killed metal or do you believe it never happened? I have watched videos about the views on these subjects, the ones that come to mind are:





    Was it grunge, glam/hair metal, illegal downloading, MTV, etc? What are your views on the matter? I personally think it was a bit of everything plus the change in culture and life. The cutting of the long hair was a crime, along with the loudness wars, the remastering and editing to make things sound 'modern'. I also believe that we have been in a form of limbo since about 2000. No one knows how to be different and move forward, so people use aspects from the past but nothing new has been created for the better. And in the second I believe that a lot of mediocre bands were put on labels and released a lot of mediocre albums, along with the removal of true singing. Honestly, anyone can scream but there are only a handful that have really powerful voices and true singing abilities. This topic is no way an attack on anyone, I do not hate any of these genres, the musicians, the bands or the fans, I'm just putting my point across. I put this on because I know there are a lot of people online that get really upset when someone starts having a go about something. I may dislike certain music genres but I do not think they are bad nor better than any other genre or type of music.
    User avatar
    Australia (au) Male
    Status:Offline
    Name: Axle
    Rank: Stronger Than Evil
    Posts: 170

    Reputation: 3755
    Topics Solved: 0

    I think it was; Grunge, Glam/hair and the 90´s
    _________________________
    PM me if any of my links are dead and I´ll fix it asap.
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    Sweden (se) Male  
    Status:Offline
    Name: Jocke
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: Dunwich
    Posts: 119

    Reputation: 5219
    Topics Solved: 1


    Me personally think it's the music industry in general, every fucking decade has a trend, late 70's - 1983 was all about Heavy Metal, Hard Rock and AOR, but when 1984 blew in it was all Glam, then 1986 it was all about both Glam and Thrash Metal, 1988, Bluesey-Glam & Thrash, 1991 or 1992 it was Groove Metal and Grunge, but somewhere in the 90's it was all about gangster rap (can't believe i braught that fucking genre up) but in the 2000's it was Metalcore and Nu-Metal, the trend keeps going, now all about Country and Techno-Fucking-Pop, Boy bands and pure shit now, what i'm saying is, the music industry killed metal in general, but in the underground scene metal is forever and will never die, but the music industry will act like that metal is dead or alive and keep shuving Slipknot and Lamb of God (i don't hate those bands but they are beyond metal).

    • 1 likes this
    _________________________
    _______________________________________________________
    If Any of My Links End up Dead i Will Re-up 'em as Soon as Possible

    http://i.imgur.com/oQTbd.png
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    United States (us) MaleYouTube 
    Status:Offline
    Name: Ben Smith
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: Susanville
    Posts: 641

    Reputation: 11390
    Topics Solved: 16


    Heavy Metal of the 80's, (and not only of this decade), is alive in my heart, in my soul and in my blood.
    Forever and ever ...

    (knight2)
    _________________________
    DRINK THE BLOOD OF THE PRIEST AS IT FLOWS FROM THE ALTAR
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    Status:Offline
    Name: Sarissoforos
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: Hlembotzar
    Posts: 369

    Reputation: 2988
    Topics Solved: 9


    My personal opinion is that metal is alive and stronger now than it has been for years, purely because there is the interest now to keep it alive. I'm old enough to remember the mid 90's metal scene... believe me, that was a bad time. That was pre-internet, when grunge was popular, but was also when the scene was shifting to more and more extremes, so the whole black metal thing was 'in' and metal in a traditional sense was very unpopular. I can remember bands like King Diamond/Mercyful Fate, Saxon, Riot and Manowar being so important to me back then, because they were some of the few bands who weren't compromising their style. In a nut shell, I blame a combination of grunge and the fact that the emphasis of metal was pushing for more and more extremes, which meant few people were interested in traditional metal. Nowadays, various factors - most notably the internet - has definitely enabled a resurgence of interest in metal, so I don't think metal was 'killed' - but it definitely was 'maimed' for a few years...
    User avatar
     Male
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Fear My Way
    Location: United Kingdom
    Posts: 99

    Reputation: 432
    Topics Solved: 3


    Honestly, lack of originality/imagination played a part in the 'demise' of the genre in the early 90s, and of course the music industry played a huge part as well.
    After the 'big 4' broke through the labels signed a lot of identikit sounding thrash bands instead of seeking out and promoting groups with a more individual sound.
    Same thing happened with the glam/hair scene off the back of the success of Motley Crue, Bon Jovi etc.
    Eventually the 'market place' became saturated with soundalike bands, and it became harder to find those bands who were offering something different.
    By the time the so-called 'grunge' thing came along it sounded like a breath of fresh air frankly.
    A lot of the Metal bands who fell by the wayside at that time were deserving of their fate frankly, a lot of them had run out of ideas and had been treading water for years.
    And the 'grunge' thing was really just a slightly different style of Hard Rock/Metal marketed as something new, when in reality the likes of Soundgarden and Alice In Chains owed a lot to the early Metal bands like Sabbath & Budgie, and were pretty honest about saying so.
    Just like the story of 'The emperor's new clothes'.
    All those 'troo-blackened-death-viking metal' tits with the cookie monster vocals and/or corpse paint have to take some of the blame too.
    Musically, that shit is about as Metal as Limp Bizkit is.
    Utter nonsense.
    At the end of the day, there will always be a new generation waiting in the wings to keep Metal alive, it's immortal and unbeatable.
    Tenacious D explain it rather nicely in "The Metal":
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR7U1HIhxfA
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    United Kingdom (uk) Male 
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: Ecosse
    Posts: 1498

    Reputation: 30510
    Topics Solved: 92


    The real truth may never be told of what killed metal but I think what killed in America was a lot of things one we can blame on American politics, Viacom, the recording industry, the movie industry, local corruption, radio stations, technology, etc. The reason I put Viacom on the list is because after their purchase of MTV from Warner Communications they cancelled a show that played some metal on a show called Heavy Metal Mania (1985-1986) and then replaced it with a show called Metal Shop 1/2 Hour (1986) and for legal reasons changed the name to Metal Music 1/2 Hour (1986-1988) and then started Headbangers Ball (1987-1994) and then changed the Metal Music 1/2 hour to Headbangers Ball Hard 30 (1988-1990) and then changed the name again to Headbangers Ball Power 60 (1990-1993). Now doesn't make it annoying seeing metal videos on MTV for three hours straight and during their random music blocks they would a lot more metal and glam/hard rock videos and by 1995 all of this was gone or was it.
    The answer is no it was not gone from MTV in 1995 after Headbangers Ball got cancelled they started a show called Superock (1995) and that show quickly bit the dust, and along come August 1st 1996 Viacom launches a new channel called M2 (due to legal reasons M2 was renamed MTV2 in 1999) where MTV's older music going for a while then in 1997 VH1 (MTV's sister channel) starts the Friday Rock Show (1997-2000) which played a lot of classic videos from well known bands and not just metal, and then on August 1st 1998 Viacom launches another new channel called MTV-X this channel is where metal music on MTV really died this is because unlike the other MTV channels MTV-X was almost not available anywhere in the America except on little known cable companies that offered it and on C-band 4DTV satellite systems (which were very expensive), and not being available on the big name companies (example Direct TV) making this channel purposely dying off into nowhere, and on May 1st 2002 MTV-X went off the air with Ozzy Osbourne's "Dreamer" being the last video played on the channel.
    About a year would go by until MTV2 would air a new revival Headbangers Ball (2003-2011) from the start of the show they showed good stuff but later on they showed crap even stuff that wasn't even metal even showing rap pretty munch trying make a reviving genre die like they tried to do with the original show and its scheduling was so sketchy that it became un-watchable.
    That's my rant on what killed metal and I stand by it claiming it was Viacom, and the information I have a lot this stuff (especially MTV-X) is very vague so anyone from the states has anything to add/correct to my rant go ahead to do so.
    Random avatar
    United States (us) Male  YouTube 
    Status:Offline
    Name: Zilversmit
    Rank: Fear My Way
    Location: Arizona USA
    Posts: 66

    Reputation: 2118
    Topics Solved: 0


    Sunset Strip glam rock in the 80's ( it went Hollywood and MTV to the point of oversaturation) and Pearl Jam in the early 90's (copied and trend-producing). I don't hate PJ, it's just that alternative style caught on like wildfire and heavy metal almost died. True metal never really went away, but metal in general was on life support for quite a while.
    Random avatar
    United States (us) Male
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Terrified
    Posts: 1

    Reputation: -62
    Topics Solved: 0


    The vast majority of us never got our Metal from MTV in the first place, so to lay so much blame at their feet may go part of the way to explaining what happened in the USA, but the downturn in Metal's fortunes at that time was a global phenomenon.
    How do you explain what happened to the scenes in Europe, Scandinavia, Australasia etc?
    If real quality Metal was out there at the time, why didn't it find it's way out on independent labels?
    Be honest, try and think of a list of classic Metal albums of the 90s that can stand up against the 70s/80s stuff, I can think of 10, maybe 15 if i'm being generous.
    At the time, i think the genre as a whole had run out of inspiration and had become over-saturated because the media had glommed on to it's popularity for a while and hyped it to such a degree.
    When you're 'flavour of the month', you run the risk of over-exposure and falling foul of fashion.
    Metal's not 'fashionable', (even if it was for a short while), it's 'classic', and therefore can't ever go out of style.
    It merely goes underground every once in a while, gets back to it's roots and comes back just as strong.

    • 1 likes this
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    United Kingdom (uk) Male 
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: Ecosse
    Posts: 1498

    Reputation: 30510
    Topics Solved: 92


    Metal never has, and never will, be fully accepted by mainstream society. Perhaps that's just the way it's meant to be.

    I think there are still a lot of people, young and old, who appreciate the classic metal sound.

    Likewise, I know there are people here who dislike the more extreme genres of metal (death/black), but plenty of those bands are talented as hell and have created some fine music. Unfortunately, the death and black metal scenes have been overrun by unoriginal copycat bands, just as thrash metal was in the late 1980s. The music industry fuels this problem by signing any band the label executives think will be the "next big thing" just because they are reminiscent of another successful act.

    There are admittedly few popular modern metal bands that appeal to me (though I will make exceptions for High on Fire and Mastodon), but there will always be bands carrying on the various genres and styles which make up Metal.

    • 1 likes this
    _________________________
    Feel free to share any of my uploads, but PLEASE upload them to your own hosts first. Sharing links without permission is a good way to cause them to go dead.

    Steel Republic
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    United States (us) Male 
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: New Jersey
    Posts: 202

    Reputation: 10607
    Topics Solved: 0


    Metal never died. The media and recording industry just milked it when they could and ignored it otherwise. I'm tempted to blame music fans for lapping up the mainstream and radio-friendly crap. Every generation seems to have their own trend of poor imitations, from glam metal to nu-metal and metalcore. I'd say metal is not alone though... poor imitations of other genres like punk, reggae and industrial find their way into the mainstream too.

    Meanwhile, underground metal keeps developing whether people pay attention or not. It went in more extreme directions and then returned with the revival of traditional heavy metal and retro stoner/doom metal. It spawned newer varieties that appeal to dedicated fans, eg. sludge, gothic metal, folk metal and black 'n' roll.

    riptorn wrote:At the time, i think the genre as a whole had run out of inspiration and had become over-saturated because the media had glommed on to it's popularity for a while and hyped it to such a degree.

    Metalheads are protective of their scene and what they've built. The attention of the media and record labels who don't know what they're talking about can feel quite cheap and repulsive, especially when they want to tell the bands what they can or can't do! So perhaps the inspiration didn't run out, it was just driven away in a different direction.
    User avatar
    New Zealand (nz) Male YouTube  
    Status:Offline
    Name: Paul
    Rank: Stronger Than Evil
    Location: New Zealand
    Posts: 117

    Reputation: 352
    Topics Solved: 4


    All those new categorisations/genre definitions that seemed to spring up in the 90's didn't help Metal either in my opinion.
    It seemed to sub-divide Heavy Metal at a time when greater unity was what seemed to be needed.
    When i was a youngster everything from Sabbath to Slayer to Kiss to Voivod was broadly defined as 'Heavy Metal', now it's all subdivided into Black/Death/Power/Symphonic/Pagan/Folk/Nu/Glam/Thrash/Progressive/Groove/Speed/Math/Grunge/Viking/Djent/Gothic/Sludge/Stoner/Funk/Doom/War/Grind/Industrial/Drone/Rap/Emo/Screamo/Crossover etc and a whole variety of '...-core's too.
    Whilst i understand the need to have a term that describes a band's music in shorthand to a potential listener, it seems that over time these descriptions have become like rules to far too many bands.
    "We are an A type band so we can't do B, C or D, and we must do E, F & G".
    Frankly i find that type of conformity to be the absolute antithesis of what the rebel spirit of Metal represents.
    These sub-genres were all initially created by bands stepping out of musical boxes by experimenting with sounds or combining different influences, but all too often, after an initial wave of creativity by the 'leaders', you get a whole load of clones following in their wake who are content to ape what has gone before without adding even their own identity to the music.
    That shows a real lack of creativity and inividuality, which is really the only thing that could kill Metal.
    Whilst i can't stand the music of Korn for example, i must applaud them for at least sounding pretty unique at the time when they emerged.
    It's the identikit bands who followed in their wake that i take issue with. Why even form a band if your only ambition is just to sound identical to someone else? How can that be satisfying to play or even listen to?
    If Metal stops evolving and becomes a stagnant pool with every new band content to regurgitate what has gone before, then Metal risks becoming just a retrogressive cult of tribute.
    There's a wonderful variety of music to be found under the 'Metal' umbrella, my hope is that it continues to evolve and thrive for a long time to come.

    • 1 likes this
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    United Kingdom (uk) Male 
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Location: Ecosse
    Posts: 1498

    Reputation: 30510
    Topics Solved: 92


    Metal? Dead? I don't think so. Thing is most mainstream media totally forgot about it. Every freaking thing, tendency, music movement, religion, ideology, etc... has its five minutes of fame on mainstream media, we had a decade and a half, is over, but it doesn't mean we don't exist anymore, actually it's all the opposite: we are stronger than ever, the technology has made it easier to share information, to bring back old bands (i think the perfect example is Strappado's labor with this beloved site of ours and the blog) only because you or DIO haven't seen it on your local TV station since 1988 it doesn't mean is dead.

    If you are like a couple of the guys up there, and good old Ronnie James and you think metal is actually dead, i order you to watch the following video.

    _________________________
    http://www.stickerchick.com/Hellraiser/s2215r.jpg
    User avatar
    Venezuela (ve) Male YouTube 
    Status:Offline
    Name: Edgar
    Rank: Enchanter
    Location: Thank Halford, not in the cemetery.
    Posts: 250

    Reputation: 84
    Topics Solved: 0


    Bloopy wrote:Metal never died. The media and recording industry just milked it when they could and ignored it otherwise. I'm tempted to blame music fans for lapping up the mainstream and radio-friendly crap. Every generation seems to have their own trend of poor imitations, from glam metal to nu-metal and metalcore. I'd say metal is not alone though... poor imitations of other genres like punk, reggae and industrial find their way into the mainstream too.

    Meanwhile, underground metal keeps developing whether people pay attention or not. It went in more extreme directions and then returned with the revival of traditional heavy metal and retro stoner/doom metal. It spawned newer varieties that appeal to dedicated fans, eg. sludge, gothic metal, folk metal and black 'n' roll.


    I completely agree with you! I swear I responded to this but apparently it didn't post so I don't know what happened.

    I didn't mean to say that metal is dead just that it had a real thrashing. I also think that some of those sub genres didn't help the industry as a lot of new bands seem to incorporate screaming, not the singing screaming but the death/groove metal screaming. Although I like early Pantera, I didn't like their later stuff and Philip Anselmo lost his voice at some point early on, I don't know if that was to blame but a lot of bands took influence. Hardcore punk was another. I think it also had a lot to do with mediocre bands being signed and mediocre bands being released. I think what I would like to say has already been said by the above posts.

    The video is interesting, I had a quick listen and it sounds good. I'm watching a film so I'll watch it later :-)

    I still and will always love metal but it seems a lot harder for me to find good new bands but it's a joyful experience when I do so I guess the search is worth it in the end!
    User avatar
    Australia (au) Male
    Status:Offline
    Name: Axle
    Rank: Stronger Than Evil
    Posts: 170

    Reputation: 3755
    Topics Solved: 0


    Comrades,

    I have a simple question. Simple but important. Do you think metal should be noticed by the mainstream? Please think hard. I have issues with what is mainstream. But the biggest issue is what direction do fans want metal music to go to.

    I hope this doesn't sound too off topic. Instead see it as a branch of the same topic. After all the mainstream tends to exhaust whatever the trend, eventually killing it by demeaning it's true intent.

    Thank you
    _________________________
    "I don't want your money. I want you dead."
    User avatar
    United States (us) Male
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Living in the Dark
    Posts: 2

    Reputation: 0
    Topics Solved: 0


    Maybe. The problem is that the mainstream only takes notice of popular songs and albums. They don't notice that metal is a successful genre as a whole, and they don't know what it's about or how to treat it. They should only notice metal if they can forget the chart-toppers and public vote for a moment, and pay attention to the metal that's getting good professional reviews. And they need to use Metal Archives' definition of metal, because they're not going to appeal to metal fans by playing Slipknot, Bon Jovi, Asking Alexandria etc.
    User avatar
    New Zealand (nz) Male YouTube  
    Status:Offline
    Name: Paul
    Rank: Stronger Than Evil
    Location: New Zealand
    Posts: 117

    Reputation: 352
    Topics Solved: 4


    'Wounded Hands' you make a valid point. I think 'mainstream' has affected metal in parts. Bon Jovi's first album although glam metal is brilliant, from there I think it went a bit downhill for them. MTV exhausted metal, and by the late 1980s we had good bands doing acoustic stuff. "Play With Me" by Extreme is amazing and then we get "More Than Words". Don't get me wrong, Extreme were never just a heavy metal band. Megadeth and Kiss doing acoustic shows. I completely agree with you Bloopy. I think a lot of 'alternative' rock bands came out as they knew they could exploit the situation, people in the general public get bored by solos and 'alternative' rock music generally lacks it. Metal Archives call Cradle of Filth metal but they don't have John5. John5 is more metal than Cradle of Filth haha. I know it's personal, everyone thinks differently and the Metal Archives have a bunch of bureaucrats running it.
    User avatar
    Australia (au) Male
    Status:Offline
    Name: Axle
    Rank: Stronger Than Evil
    Posts: 170

    Reputation: 3755
    Topics Solved: 0


    For me, metal never died. I began listening to what was then considered metal about '79 with Aerosmith, Zeppelin, and KISS. From there, it went into Maiden, Angel Witch, Priest, etc. Over the long decades, I've seen the challengers: New Wave, (c)rap, that horrid grunge shite from the 90's and always, metal has come out on top.

    I think of it as a tsunami. It can't be stopped.

    Just when I think metal's gone too deep underground, I'll inadvertently meet someone younger who goes on and on about newer bands with all of the fire & passion I had as a kid and then, my faith is reinstated. I have to say, I tend to like it in the underground a little more than I did when metal hit its heights, in the 80's. When it's like that, to me it feels like it is the true believers, and not a bunch of trend followers.
    _________________________
    Feel free to share my links anywhere except Douche Almighty's Outhouse of Bootlegs site. You can credit me or not; I could care less. Just have fun with the music and enjoy it.
    User avatar
    Bringer of Steel
    Status:Offline
    Rank: Bringer of Steel
    Posts: 90

    Reputation: 3117
    Topics Solved: 0


    I agree with almost every sentence said by all your guys. All of what I was going to say was been said.

    By the way, I'd rather some Grunge or Melodic Hard Rock/AOR than any Groove/Nu metal shit.

    Nu metal is very embarassing to music overally. (According to the music industry) it's rooted in Rap and "metal". Well, it's embarrasing to metal fans as much as it is embarassing to RAP fans.
    _________________________
    PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO TOPICS WITH "THANKS"!
    Use the green thumb up buttom at the top of the page (Click to see location).
    (and please, say something interesting. Don't be a f***** spammer!).
    User avatar
    FORUM MOD!
    Brazil (br) Male 
    Status:Offline
    Name: Mauro
    Rank: FORUM MOD!
    Location: São Paulo
    Posts: 235

    Reputation: 4536
    Topics Solved: 9


    I think Grunge played a role in "weakening" metal, but metal is going pretty strong still. If all grunge bands turned out like Soundgarden at their peak things likely would have turned out better... but... grunge is thankfully pretty much dead now and metal is alive and well. c:
    User avatar
    FORUM MOD!
    Canada (ca) Male YouTube 
    Status:Offline
    Name: Tachi Ikoma
    Rank: FORUM MOD!
    Location: Alberta
    Posts: 768

    Reputation: 22968
    Topics Solved: 16


    « Return to General Metal Discussions



    Related Topics  Author   Replies   Views 
    related Darxon (Ger) - Killed In Action (1984)

    nucleus

    0

    600

    related A.K.R. [Anorexia Killed The Rat] (US) - Demo (1988)

    MICRONTHEMACHINE

    0

    379

    related Blessed Death (US) - Kill Or Be Killed (1985)

    sacreddeath

    0

    935

    related Beerhead (Pol-SL) - Killed By Beer [Demo] (1992)

    stratocaster_123

    0

    382

    related Axe Murderers (Prt) - Completely Killed [Demo] (2002)

    Rickmetal

    0

    328

    related Nunslaughter (US) - Killed By The Cross [Single] (1990)

    achad1979

    0

    144

    related R.A.V.A.G.E. (US) - Rotting in Hell (aka Kill or Be Killed) [Demo] (1985)

    emanuelnwobhm

    1

    654


    « Previous topic | Next topic »

    Who is online
    Users browsing this forum: manidachs and 1 guest