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General Metal Discussions » Let's finally update Metal Archives' old-school bands' pages
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  • As many of you noticed, The Metal Archives (Encyclopaedia Metallum) is the best site to discover metal bands. But we should see that many pages of old-school (70's and 80's) metal bands are outdated and even may contain errors. For example there's many wrong tracklists, low-quality album covers, very outdated additional notes that have no information about re-issues, also possibly there are some demos/EPs/albums that still aren't in the discography section. Not to mention how line-ups and lyrics and credits are missed.

    This forum are visited by old-school metal experts, collectors and die-hard fans, and we need you all to update the best site about metal ever created!
    You have many original albums - Vinyls, CDs and Tapes - let's take photos, scans of booklets and inserts - and make band pages on Metal Archives much better than it's now.

    I'll do it myself on Metal Archives since I've decided to help updating the site and correcting the existing data. And contributors are always welcome - webmasters and moderators of the Metal Archives are always very busy - they are accepting new bands, working on countless reports, moderating the huge forum and simply have no time to update all of 92 000+ bands. Especially the old-school ones.

    So, please, if you have something to update and want to make Metal Archives even better - just send me photos/scans of original albums/EPs/demos and I'll update the information. Someting missed/outdated/wrong - we can work it out.

    Keep it true! (vking1)
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    Bringer of Steel
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    Maybe if that cunt Morrigan wasn't running things more people would help out.
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    I do not like the policy of MA to exclude some bands and genres,for example Hair/Glam Metal of the 80s(not my cup of tea btw...),where are bands like White Lion,Ratt,Cinderella and Vain? Years ago i registered with the same nick to the forum but never posted because of that,as far as i'm concerned do not expect my contribution.
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    I agree with nonseinormale. I haven't contributed since they removed a lot of NWOBHM and bands that wasn't "heavy" enough.
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    Let me explain the things from their attitude from what I learned over the years of browsing (since 2005) and contributing (since 2011). I know that some metalheads hate MA for different reasons and they have the rights to hate the site - but let's see details.

    Metal Archives exist to achieve the goal of listing all metal bands from all over the world that have at least one proper metal release - in physical form (CD, LP, tape). To be accepted on MA, the band should be metal and have a proper release - available for purchasing. Since 2013 MA accepting bands with digital releases only - but those releases should be at least 30+ minutes long, available for downloading in good quality, professionally recorded and with cover art. They never accept short-lived projects that didn't release anything at least in one physical form, because if they will, every Myspace band and bedroom projects will flood the entire site.

    If the band released only one demo and made only ten copies which can't be purchased - the band wouldn't be accepted.

    To add a band to MA, you need to proof the band's existence (photo of a physical release / the site where it can be purchased / review in the zine if the band is very obscure) and the thing called "metalness" - that thing is the staring point of all holywars on MA.

    Metal band for MA's crew is a band which no doubt is metal. Predominantly metal. I'll try to explain what it is though even moderators often had debates of what it is. To be metal for MA, the band should have metal riffs in their music, clearly heard and predominantly existed in the songs. Sometimes it's very hard to draw the line where the music is metal and where it's not. Borderline metal bands can be accepted but only if they are more metal than anything. And what MA is trying to do when they are not sure to accept or to reject the band - to draw the line.

    Many 70's bands were rejected by the owners of the site - because they have only metal songs in their releases, but their albums were not predominantly metal.

    60's bluesy proto-metal bands, like Blue Cheer and Cream; heavy psychedelic/occult/progressive rock like Atomic Rooster, Beggars Opera, Captain Beyond, Night Sun; classic hard rock/proto heavy metal bands, like Uriah Heep, Led Zeppelin, Mountain, Jerusalem and Steppenwolf; half metal-half hard rock bands from late 70's like Centaurus, Prom and Rhapsody Sweden - they never will be accepted because they are not considered predominantly metal.

    Sir Lord Baltimore were accepted because they are heavy as Black Sabbath. Lucifer's Friend were accepted again since 2013 for being a perfect example of early heavy metal. Buffalo from Australia are also considered heavy enough.

    With NWOBHM, it's hard to draw the line when the band's music is not predominantly heavy metal. Praying Mantis was brought to the site at least ten times and rejected because they're considered more hard rock than metal. It should be predominantly heavy like Holocaust, Angel Witch, Saxon and Iron Maiden on their debuts, to be accepted.

    With all hair/glam "metal" bands of 80's, they considered them more hard/glam rock than metal. Dokken, Motley Crue, Twisted Sister and W.A.S.P. are there because they're heavy metal enough on their debuts (W.A.S.P. is obviously a heavy metal band).

    "Metal enough" for MA's owners = having metal riffs in the music and be predominantly metal. Metal riff is the one that Tony Iommi created on the Black Sabbath debut, that Judas Priest "British Steel" is full of, that Iron Maiden opening song "Prowler" on their great NWOBHM debut.

    I hope it explain the things. They are not assholes and Morrigan is not a cunt, she is a good girl, believe me. They just have no time to update all that bands and should draw the line between the real heavy metal and other music. With old-school heavy metal, it's always borderline with blues/psychedelic/occult/progressive rock/proto-punk/punk if it's 60's and 70's, and borderline with hard rock all the time. Hard n' Heavy bands are not metal bands for Metal Archives, only if the heavy metal outweigh the hard rock.

    If they were Rock Archives, not Metal Archives, that problem even didn't existed. But metal music, in the opinion of Metal Archives' owners, are music that driven by metal riffs, predominantly. Old-school guys obviously didn't draw that line and didn't have that attitude. And they have right to. But Metal Archives, to being the most metal site ever existed, must draw that line. Otherwise, they should accept anything and renaming themselves to Rock Archives.
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    Bringer of Steel
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    It's good that Metal Archives has their definition of metal and sticks to it. If they started letting in some other related genres, they would find it very hard to draw new lines and decide where to stop. It's nice and contained the way it is now, even though most users will disagree on a few bands here and there.

    The NWOBHM bands named Prowler need some help if anyone's able, see this report.
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    Night Sun from Germany had returned to Archives!

    Some old bands were mistakenly deleted by one of the incompetent mod I guess because Lucifer's Friend also were restored!

    How d'you think which bands missed on the Archives?
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    Bringer of Steel
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    I do hate some MA rules and I do agree with others. These borderlines are annoying most time but they must do it, otherwise they would end up like metalstorm.com

    MS feature synth/electro pop bands like Unheilig, Lacrimosa and blutengel. Also there's more dark ambient or 70's hard/progressive rock bands there than actually metal, The staff accept non-metal bands in the case of influentual ones, like AC/DC.

    But wait, they don't feature classic punk bands like The Clash or Ramones and they're way too much influential to metal development, from NWOBHM to extreme metal. But, they accept almost every Hardcore punk bands for no reason why...

    In the end, I do agree most times with MA.
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    To each their own. When I first discovered the MA I subscribed to their forum in order to see how things went. I was so put off by the arrogant reaction of a mod to a question I posted, that I decided to leave them alone.

    Luckely I stumbled on Strapps blog & forum. My input there was accepted and treated with respect. Thats why I hang around here, contribute and ask for info.

    Don't get me wrong. I embrace the thought behind the MA and I understand there has to be some ruling, but it will never be a complete documentation if they keep on acting as they do.

    This said. Feel free to go through my postings and add non listed recordings to the MA if you wish.

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    I am starting to think that Arbitrater (UK) and Arbitrator are actually the same band despite what is said on the metal archives or at least a continuation of the former. There are way too many connections between the two bands and the Varukers. Surely these can't simply be coincidental. But, if this is true then that would mean that there are links between all the following bands = Varukers - Arbitrator - Arbitrater - Metal Messiah.
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    Too late again so this is most likely a useless reply, will post it anyway though as its a topic still up for discussion and it's about a site most likely most of us visit often. I totally agree with Noisenormale65 and Strappado on this, i registered and tried to add a couple of bands myself some years ago, bands that they did not accept for not being metal enough for them... The finest example i can think of (and one of the bands i tried to add, along with a couple others before i stopped bothering) is the one you mentioned, Praying Mantis. I can understand that everyone has a different taste and a different perception and i respect everyone's point of view. But how can those core-something bands (that do not even consider themselves metal at all and Metal Archives is flooded by them) be considered more metal this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX8ppfwzqwA is beyond me.
    Don't get me wrong, i do visit Metal Archives often and really like the idea behind it a lot and really believe in the good intentions of the people running it. I just don't feel i can contribute there directly as there is bit different perception that may create a lack of communication. And with saying that i mean that i will keep visiting that site and i really hope the best for it, feel free to add any information you may think is an update from my posts (credits from vinyl or actual release for example) or from this forum (i believe none here will have a problem with that?), i just don't think i can contribute anything there myself and i wont bother trying anymore.
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    I completely stopped adding to that site after that huge peice of shit CHRISTKILLER removed 10,000 points from me for submitting SORCERER (regardless of the fact that they have a 4 song demo from 83 i even know the song titles too) because the PRE-Sorcerer 7" isnt "Metal enough" (its not even the same band, its one member from both). I only since started fixing some INSANELY WRONG shit like Chemikill "Live @ The Fantasy" (with an "F") as a "Live Demo" with 4 songs and even a cover (an unused cover planned for a demo that was never finished, taken from Myspace too)!! ..... despite the fact that those 4 songs (complete with venue and title mistakes "City Night" "Fate Worse" instead of "City Night To Roam" and "Fate Worse Than Death") are ripped from an unofficial Myspace Page that just put them up so people could hear more Chemikill around 2004-05, and the night in question (the Heavy Artillery Release Party @ The PHantasy) Chemikill played 6 songs not 4, the ones there in a different order (and it was obviously recorded at higher then 96kbps).....

    Im adding lots of logos and missing art and typing out a lot of lyrics. Check out the new and improved DIABOLICUS page. I added LUDACI, and have pending submissions for GRAVELORD, DEMENTIA, MY 3 SCUM, and a few more coming. Sadly I cant post lyrics here any more because the VERY SECOND i do some guy from the Czech Republic adds all the lyrics I typed out to their Metal-Archives page without so much as a "Thanks for going out of your way to tediously type all this out so I can reap 5 goddamn points!!"......a couple stray reputations (props guys!) but some leecher was super excited I posted so he could get those sweet, sweet points. (roll)
    Someone even added a member heres FIRST ATTEMPT to transcribe Black Death lyrics, despite the fact that he posted them ASKING FOR HELP CORRECTING THEM, in no way saying "These are mostly right but could someone correct a couple things" or anything like that. I had to type out all the lyrics and replace them on M-A myself so Black Death didnt look like they have nonsensical lyrics... I hope whoever is doing that shit reads this! Cut the shit!

    Im still typing out a lot of lyrics and working on a new cd you guys'll all see when its announced. If anyone sees any really bad mistakes (like the BIOGRAPHICAL ABORTION someone put on my Zyklone page..."K Easterly and Cal Burgess RECRUITED the guys from Mystik after Zyklone broke up".... ???? Huh? Mystik existed 2 years before Zyklone as the project of Roy Gurstenberg, and after the departure of M.L. they HIRED Kenny and Cal just to record and Kenny ended up staying...
    Also KINK N SCRATCH was a page....despite the fact that the GLAM BAND with the 88 demo is KICK N SCRATCH "Kink N Scratch" doesnt even make sense....total glam also ala Spoyld, Fatal Charm (also had a demo sold on ebay same time and seller as KICK N SCRATCH in 06).

    Any other really bad and/or obvious mistakes on there?
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    I hear you BOC.
    Plenty of reasons to NOT do much. One of the main reasons you just said is my main gripe
    - any new info or previously unheard of bands, you provide on any metal forum (or even facebook!) is gathered and put there by others,
    but you yourself are not allowed to. This is why I get pissed off when I used to get emails or private messages asking me for info.
    These guys can add it, but not me.

    Example: there are a couple bands I sent for admission, but were rejected because there was no "proof" that the physical demos existed,
    yet for other bands, elusive 1980s demos that NOBODY on that site has seen are admitted simply because of what was said elsewhere!

    ANY INFO you add on MA , gets deleted or modified a lot by whoever for "points".
    This goes for even changing a lower case letter into a capital letter.
    Reviews that are more concise and accurate are rejected, as they prefer long pieces of SHIT instead.

    There are members here that probably still help Metal Archives.
    Why help a shitass site like that,
    they deleted a ton of NWOBHM bands that older MA members and bands themselves spent a lot of time working ion?
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    canadaspaceman wrote:I hear you BOC.
    Plenty of reasons to NOT do much. One of the main reasons you just said is my main gripe
    - any new info or previously unheard of bands, you provide on any metal forum (or even facebook!) is gathered and put there by others,
    but you yourself are not allowed to. This is why I get pissed off when I used to get emails or private messages asking me for info.
    These guys can add it, but not me.

    Example: there are a couple bands I sent for admission, but were rejected because there was no "proof" that the physical demos existed,
    yet for other bands, elusive 1980s demos that NOBODY on that site has seen are admitted simply because of what was said elsewhere!

    ANY INFO you add on MA , gets deleted or modified a lot by whoever for "points".
    This goes for even changing a lower case letter into a capital letter.
    Reviews that are more concise and accurate are rejected, as they prefer long pieces of SHIT instead.

    There are members here that probably still help Metal Archives.
    Why help a shitass site like that,
    they deleted a ton of NWOBHM bands that older MA members and bands themselves spent a lot of time working ion?



    I totally agree with all youv said here. The ONLY reason Ive been adding shit lately is to A) Make my life easier (if I see one more demo that doesnt exist on a want list because information i submitted was twisted around later by someone who doesnt know SHIT, i dont know what ill do)
    B) To get credit for shit myself JUST SO I dont have to see someone else submit all my info later (or whatever they could gather from convos with me without telling me their intention, complete or accurate info be damned!!) and act like they "discovered" it.
    I was pretty pissed to see GUTWRENCH added with the tracklists to my rips (THAT I NEVER SHARED WILLINGLY) listed as the discography. GOOD LUCK PROVIDING PROOF THEY EXIST PHYSICALLY. Those 3 demos are all homemade tapes with hand written J-cards I got dubbed copies off all 3 on one tape and ripped them for myself. NOBODY including me could provide pictures that would satisfy them. Nobody besides me even knows where the fuck those came from, it took YEARS to find the DJ that got them from the band, and for him to find them in the storage unit that contained them and get them copied for me.

    Considering they just rejected a submission of mine (Dont want to say because someone else will re-submit it and itll get accepted, I bet!) that included a scan of the entire J-Card of their demo provided by the bass player, a sample of the music, a band photo, a logo, complete lineup info, links, there wasnt enough "Proof"....
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    - TOM "MEZO" POLLOCK (Decibel magazine)
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    hehe dont worry BOC, we have more rejected ourselves :P i agree with you and Canadaspaceman, i still visit that site often tho and i wouldnt like to see that close down
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    I surely don't need M.A. 0 points 0 submitions 0 corrections - and i could add a lot there ... but i won't.

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    I'm very pissed off with metal archives specially the moderator "Azmodes", they rejected oldschool bands i added because things like (give me a proof of distribution of this obscure demo from 1991) i won't contribute to this site anymore, many digital kid joke bands are on it, but important oldschool bands are rejected those guys may be posers i don't know if they are making money with the site.

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    Bringer of Steel
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    Gotta agree with some of the above. I wont name moderators or posters there but I've been a member of the site for years and I've found lots of new bands I enjoy from within their pages but that's where the usefulness of the site stops for me. I'll admit sometimes what I say might not sound the same to someone on the internet as it does in my head, and therefore it might offend, but over the years I've found some people there less than reasonable to some of the errors I pointed out. Even before I lost most of my collection of music and I had physical copies of some EP's and could show photographic evidence of their mistake I'd be told I was wrong. I don't mind being wrong, even when I'm right, but the more times I get told the less likely I am to participate.

    On top of that the forum is just a melting pot of dickheads, people who are never wrong and think the best way of proving their righteousness is to name call and throw expletives around. I'm not a prude I can swear with the best of them, I'm also not hurt by words on the internet, as I don't intend mine to hurt, but I'd still prefer to spend my time elsewhere. Metal Archives to me is like Wikipedia, good place to visit to get the basics but if you want anything reliable go elsewhere.

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    I regret on if i offended someone talking about moderators, i did the message just at the moment of being rejected on two bands that took me many time and effort to add (because those bands deserve not to be forgotten), i have to say "OpsiusCato" he is a cool moderator at least with me, some moderator may be good people, just with the moderator "Azmodes" was the drop that spilled the glass and i agree with most of you, better not to contribute with them, still it's useful but i will focus more on Discogs.
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    I can understand why they need things like that demo distribution proof. People have tried to submit fake releases and so on. My only issue has been when I reported corrections that were accepted, and then someone else comes along later and makes the info wrong again so I have to report the mistake again... seems like the correction history isn't being read well enough.

    I used to stay away from the forum there because it seemed quite serious and intimidating, but I started posting there in 2018 and I don't mind it now. As someone with a total non-musician mind (apart from making noise music) I can't really talk about metal like many people do.
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